Forum

Gotham Girls Roller Derby

other rules clarifications and notes from June 2 bout

Not sure how the game works? Here's the place to ask.

other rules clarifications and notes from June 2 bout

Postby hambone » 06.04.06 12:40AM

Here are a few other quick not-so-obvious rules notes from the June 2 bout.

If you don't find any of these notes interesting, you're probably in the wrong forum.


- DELAY OF GAME

Several times, each team was penalized for "illegal procedure - delay of game". (I think one team picked up 3 of these, the other team 2.)

These were minor fouls awarded to the teams as a whole. Had there been four such team fouls, that team's captain would have had to sit out 1:00 and the team would skate short a blocker. (Other 'team fouls' can include interference from the bench, insolence by the team manager, interference by a mascot, etc.)

Official WFTDA rules (v1.0) state that a jam begins after 20 seconds have elapsed from the previous jam's ending, even if the skaters aren't all out there ready to go.

GGRD has chosen to locally modify these rules in the interest of always having the correct number of skaters out there in each jam. If a team is not ready to go with proper personnel in place within 30 seconds, they are awarded a minor team penalty and given a chance to get the right people in there. We do not begin a jam unless the right people are in it.

At least twice, a team had five blockers in the pack ready to start the jam. We refused to start the jam this way, awarded a delay of game penalty, and corrected the situation. That was what was going on when a jam seemed to start but then get called back and re-started.



- FALSE START

In one jam, a Brooklyn jammer (Ariel?) jumped the gun and started early. GGRD's policy is that when a jammer does this, she collects a minor foul for illegal procedure and is expected to fall back and yield the advantage she gained by starting early. If she refuses to do this, she can pick up another minor (for "insolence") and be disqualified from becoming lead jammer.

In this case, the jammer fell back voluntarily and yielded to the other jammer. One minor foul, and the jam continues without requiring a tedious re-start.


- LEAD JAMMER SENT TO BOX

In one second period jam, a jammer (Suzy Hotrod) was Lead, but sent to the penalty box.

GGRD policy is that the moment a Lead Jammer is sent to the box, she's powerless to call off the jam. However, she's still Lead Jammer, and should the jam continue long enough, she may call off the jam immediately after serving her 1:00. This is exactly what happened.


- PASSING THE STAR EARLY

In one jam, a jammer passed the star helmet cover to her pivot. If memory serves, this was Queens's Scarlett Rage (jammer) passing off to Donna Matrix (pivot).

WFTDA rules (v1.0) state that a star may only be passed after Lead Jammer (or lack thereof) has been established. At the time Scarlett passed the star, the Brooklyn Jammer had broken through the pack but was not declared lead due to her own fouls or out-of-bounds skating. Scarlett, trailing, was still eligible to become Lead Jammer, but passed the star before getting through the pack OR herself being disqualified from attaining Lead Jammer status. By doing so, she picked up a minor illegal procedure penalty for passing the star before Lead Jammer had been established.


Oh, it's all so fascinating.

- Hambone
User avatar
hambone
Referee
 
Posts: 4604
Joined: 04.01.05 2:39PM

Postby The Professor » 06.06.06 8:37PM

My Dear Hambone,

Si vales, gaudeo.

Is there now a concise online statement of how GGRD's local rules differ from the WFTDA rules (v1.0)? I've read the whole history of the Rules Forum, but I'm no good at Talmudic studies and it is becoming not so dissimilar. I looked in all the obvious locations, but couldn't find anything.

If a league is a member of the WFTDA is there a limit to the ways in which they can change the rules or is the WFTDA only interested in making sure inter-league play is handled by the rules they have set out? I'm curious.

Di te incolumem custodiant.
User avatar
The Professor
 
Posts: 34
Joined: 06.06.06 1:19PM
Location: a little to the left of everyone else

Postby margaretthrasher » 06.06.06 10:25PM

You know what I think, Hammy? I think we should mic one of you. And then, at the end of each jam, stop the clock as you guys confer, until the miked ref faces the stands and declares (like on tv football) who fouled that jam and what was called on them. THEN the clock should start counting down thirty seconds for the girls to get in starting positions.

Either that, or go back to writing the numbers of fouling skaters on the whiteboard under the jam scores so we can announce them.


love,
thrasher
Why you got yer leavin legs on?
User avatar
margaretthrasher
Announcer
 
Posts: 1255
Joined: 04.19.05 1:26PM
Location: In bed in NYC

Postby Ana Bollocks » 06.06.06 10:39PM

margaretthrasher wrote:You know what I think, Hammy? I think we should mic one of you. And then, at the end of each jam, stop the clock as you guys confer, until the miked ref faces the stands and declares (like on tv football) who fouled that jam and what was called on them.


You know, we had actually planned on instituting that, though it wasn't gonna start until partway through the season... we wanted to see how the rules changes and other changes to bout production went first...

Unfortunately, any money earmarked for the mics (and then some) went to a very pretty, but very expensive, blue floor.
"Awww... I put the ear in the testicle bucket."
User avatar
Ana Bollocks
Queens of Pain
 
Posts: 4128
Joined: 05.19.05 5:29PM
Location: En Why See

Postby hambone » 06.07.06 12:38AM

actually, i *WAS* miked for the first period in this last bout. for a documentary project. not sure how that's gonna turn out. I just hope they didn't capture too much of my singing during warm-ups.

as much of a publicity whore as i might be, i am not all that in favor of mic-ing referees during bouts. We barely have enough time to figure out between all of us what's going on. Then to take another 5 seconds to declare it all to the crowd risks adding serious draggi-ness to the proceedings.

This last bout, we added a new wrinkle where we had a second 'penalty' white board on which we wrote who ought to be in the box and who was rolling with 3 minors. The primary audience for this board, however, was the two team managers, who needed to know the data in order to manage their own lineups. We could have flashed it to the announcers as well, but the writing on it was necessarily pretty small and probably completely inscrutable at that distance.

At Philly bouts, they have walkie-talkies between the refs and the announcers, which is cool, but then the announcers spend the first 30 seconds of the next jam talking about all the fouls committed in the last jam, which, from my perspective, can be very distracting, especially if they misinterpret the message and get it wrong.

In my ideal universe, refs in the middle would control an overhead-projected version of the foul situation so that everyone can see everyone's foul status. I think we'll get there eventually once we build the Gotham Girls Roller Derby Arena (naming rights negotiable).

Or an off-rink person would control a visual display and refs would walkie-talkie just with them.

- hambone
User avatar
hambone
Referee
 
Posts: 4604
Joined: 04.01.05 2:39PM

Postby Tyrannysue » 06.07.06 12:43AM

Hammy...Given the situation(s) and the increasing speed of the bouts, I think the league as a whole is slowly but surely adapting. You guys rocked and reffing(sp?) is becoming increasingly difficult. I think that the constant vigilance is enough for me.
Much Love. :twisted:
TYRANNY SUE
#88 PAIN IS GOOD
Tyrannysue
Queens of Pain
 
Posts: 87
Joined: 06.29.05 11:19AM

Postby hambone » 06.07.06 12:50AM

aww shucks

It's also getting increasingly dangerous... At least a handful of us got rocked at one point or another in this last bout -- I can't believe you girls volunteer to get hit as a matter of course!!
User avatar
hambone
Referee
 
Posts: 4604
Joined: 04.01.05 2:39PM

Postby Tyrannysue » 06.07.06 1:01AM

I can't either. But before Friday, I didn't know how good it felt to JUST LOVE TO SKATE AND NOT BE AFRAID!!!
TYRANNY SUE
#88 PAIN IS GOOD
Tyrannysue
Queens of Pain
 
Posts: 87
Joined: 06.29.05 11:19AM

Postby hambone » 06.07.06 1:23AM

Image

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.
User avatar
hambone
Referee
 
Posts: 4604
Joined: 04.01.05 2:39PM

Postby Red_Barin » 06.07.06 1:29AM

hambone wrote:Image

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.


He was sooo pretty back then.
"I hate you so much it gives me energy. I have to get up early in the morning because there's not enough time in the day to hate you."
Red_Barin
Referee
 
Posts: 308
Joined: 04.04.05 8:56AM
Location: Brooklyn

Postby The Professor » 06.07.06 8:29AM

From a spectator's point of view, a passive information display like Hambone describes is preferable to an announcement from either the refs or announcers. Most importantly, the information can be displayed for a period of time and those interested can refer back to it as the next jam proceeds without interrupting the game. Also, while surely a remote possibility, if the refs got boo'd wildly while announcing the information, those interested could still miss what was being conveyed.

The discussion about how the refs should communicate with the audience and announcers is a good one, but I'd still like to know the answers to my initial two questions. Thanks.
User avatar
The Professor
 
Posts: 34
Joined: 06.06.06 1:19PM
Location: a little to the left of everyone else

Postby Joey XXX » 06.07.06 9:13AM

The Professor wrote:My Dear Hambone,

Si vales, gaudeo.

Is there now a concise online statement of how GGRD's local rules differ from the WFTDA rules (v1.0)? I've read the whole history of the Rules Forum, but I'm no good at Talmudic studies and it is becoming not so dissimilar. I looked in all the obvious locations, but couldn't find anything.


To my knowledge, the only adjustment that we've made to the WFTDA rules is the use of two thirty minute periods, as opposed to three twenty minute periods (unless that was a change in the WFTDA rules themselves.).

The Professor wrote:If a league is a member of the WFTDA is there a limit to the ways in which they can change the rules or is the WFTDA only interested in making sure inter-league play is handled by the rules they have set out? I'm curious.

Di te incolumem custodiant.


As far as I know, leagues may choose to play by whatever rules they want during their internal games, though I would assume that they run the risk of not being sanctioned by WFTDA if they deviate too much. These rules were primarily set out to standardize the game of roller derby nationally, so that leagues would not have to constantly renegotiate the rules every time they wanted an interleague bout.

However, it should be noted that a league that does not regularly play by WFTDA rules is at a severe disadvantage during interleague games. If, for example, a league decides that forearms are not a foul, and plays that way all season, the players are likely to get a whole lot of fouls when they step on to the track for an interleague game. As a result, I believe most (if not all) WFTDA leagues have adopted the WFTDA rules as their own.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure there are (several) people more knowledgeable about this than myself.
Queens of Pain: We beat the competition.

Two Time Season Champions!
User avatar
Joey XXX
Queens of Pain
 
Posts: 1235
Joined: 03.31.05 7:56PM
Location: NYC

Postby Wanda Seymour Beaver » 06.07.06 10:53AM

hambone wrote:This last bout, we added a new wrinkle where we had a second 'penalty' white board on which we wrote who ought to be in the box and who was rolling with 3 minors. The primary audience for this board, however, was the two team managers, who needed to know the data in order to manage their own lineups. We could have flashed it to the announcers as well, but the writing on it was necessarily pretty small and probably completely inscrutable at that distance.

- hambone


Since I was controlling the period clock (nice job for a woman - lol), I was at the announcer's table, and I could read the white board most of the time. But, I have better than average distance vision, and while Thrasher may have x-ray vision, she may not be able to see the board. But, it could work to flash it to the announcers as well.

- Wanda Seymour Beaver
10% is not enough, recruit recruit recruit
User avatar
Wanda Seymour Beaver
Bronx Gridlock
 
Posts: 605
Joined: 10.26.05 10:54AM
Location: brooklyn NY

Postby hambone » 06.07.06 10:53AM

Joey XXX wrote:To my knowledge, the only adjustment that we've made to the WFTDA rules is the use of two thirty minute periods, as opposed to three twenty minute periods (unless that was a change in the WFTDA rules themselves.).


Not quite true...

Before getting to that, yes, any league can play under whatever rules they want in their own games and still be a "WFTDA" league. And two WFTDA teams can play an interleague bout and agree beforehand to use any agreed modifications to WFTDA rules. Not that anyone's running off playing clockwise jams -- everyone wants to learn and play the same game. There *are* guidelines as to what constitutes a WFTDA-certified bout, but for the moment those focus on major logistics (like, is it insured by USARS, is it a flat track, etc.) rather than micro-level inspection of the bouting rules in play for that event.

WFTDA rules were discussed at a national meeting in Minnesota over memorial day weekend and there is a lot of work going on right now by rules-monkeys around the country to revise them to remedy some of the omissions and contradictions and confusing language. GGRD made a few amendments to WFTDA rules v1.0 for our own purposes, mostly to add clarifications rather than to fundamentally change the way the game is played.

Okay so as of right now these are the significant deviations between WFTDA rules v1.0 and GGRD 2006 rules: (deep breath)

- two thirty minute periods, not three twenty minute periods

- thirty seconds between jams, not twenty

- if skaters are not in place ready for the next jam, the jam does not start without them - instead, the team is assessed a Delay of Game penalty

- on her first lap through the pack, if a jammer is forced to pass a blocker out of bounds due to having been fouled, she remains eligible to be lead jammer

- once a lead jammer is declared, she stays lead jammer for the rest of the jam. (This isn't so much a deviation from WFTDA rules as it is a clarification on a point missing from WFTDA rules)

- if the star helmet cover is dropped, skating clockwise to go pick it up is an illegal procedure penalty (again, this is more a clarification than deviation)

- skaters may not assist their jammers if they are out of bounds (again, this is more a clarification than deviation)

- skaters more than 20 feet from the pack (i.e. the majority of skaters) must speed up or slow down to re-join the pack or risk being penalized. This is a major deviation from WFTDA rules, which do not currently penalize skating outside the pack (but do penalize blocking/assisting outside the pack). Many other leagues have also added this deviation and expect this to be standard in WFTDA v2.0.

- you can't initiate a block with your forearms. you may protect yourself with your forearms. WFTDA rules forbid touching anyone with forearms ever; this draconian language is likely to be cleaned up in WFTDA v2.0 and for now many other leagues are doing as GGRD does.

- Fallen skaters who are lapped by the pack will receive a minor penalty for illegal procedure but then will be eligible to legally block and assist when in the pack again. WFTDA 1.0 rules don't make any mention of this situation.

- WFTDA rules say that a maxiumum of two blockers may be in the penalty box for a team at any given time. GGRD (and many other leagues) have stricken this prohibition, largely due to its impossible enforceability when you try to enforce penalties mid-jam.

- WFTDA rules dictate that a player picking up her fourth minor needs to be penalized mid-jam. GGRD allows this penalization to be delayed to the beginning of the next jam, at referee discretion, to reduce confusion on the part of players, refs, and fans.

- GGRD clarifies that a jammer gets one shot to score a point against a blocker in each lap --- i.e. if she attempts to pass her but winds up doing it out of bounds, she can never recover that point even if she subsequently passes her legally 10 more times in that lap. WFTDA rules v1.0 are ambiguous on this point.

- If a jammer fouls a blocker while trying to pass her, she can't pick up that point. WFTDA rules v1.0 are ambiguous on that point.

- Penalty time being served does not run between jams. WFTDA rules v1.0 are ambiguous on this point.

Whew!

- hambone
User avatar
hambone
Referee
 
Posts: 4604
Joined: 04.01.05 2:39PM

Re: other rules clarifications and notes from June 2 bout

Postby frankie teardrop » 06.07.06 1:13PM

hambone


Image

in all seriousness...the new rules this season have made for a more exciting and dramatic bout all around. the mystery, the intrigue, the drama! bang up job enforcing them, too.
clanging in my heart. bastard! idiot! feel the wrath of my bombast!
User avatar
frankie teardrop
 
Posts: 3
Joined: 06.01.06 6:03PM

Next

Return to Rules Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest