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Four Incredibly Pedantic Questions for Hambone (or others)

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Four Incredibly Pedantic Questions for Hambone (or others)

Postby The Professor » 06.12.06 2:31PM

Hi,

These are for Hambone only in the sense that he seems to enjoy rules talk more than anyone else here.

1. WFTDA rules 1.0 state that there are three periods of twenty minutes each; GGRD uses two periods of thirty minutes each. WFTDA rules state that each team can call a time-out once per period, which gives them three per game. Do GGRD teams likewise only get one per period? If so, that gives them only two per game. Is the other time-out recoverd in some way? One way this might matter is if a team wishes to use time-outs strategically (e.g. try to break momentum the other team has).

2. Section 3.5 of WFTDA rules discussing passing the star to allow the pivot to become the jammer. In 3.5.6 it states that the initial jammer plays the role of the pivot once the star has been passed. Does "play the role" mean the star could, in theory, be passed back to her? It may be implausible, but implausible isn't impossible. So, allowed or not?

3. Section 5.1 of WFTDA rules discusses legal blocking. 5.1.6 states that skaters can't user their head in blocking. 5.1.7 states the very same thing, but 5.1.7.1 states "opposing players may not push through blockers from behind". Seems there is a typo, but I can't figure out from 5.1.7.1 what 5.1.7 should be. So, what is 5.1.7.

4. WFTDA rules section 6.5.1 discusses intermission penalty showdowns. I found this section a little strange. Any insight into the origins of this rule?

Oppressively Pedantically Yours,
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Re: Four Incredibly Pedantic Questions for Hambone (or other

Postby hambone » 06.12.06 2:55PM

The Professor wrote:Hi,

These are for Hambone only in the sense that he seems to enjoy rules talk more than anyone else here.


Oh, I'm sure there are some other fans of rules talk out there. They, however, prefer to keep their secret shame quiet.

The Professor wrote:1. WFTDA rules 1.0 state that there are three periods of twenty minutes each; GGRD uses two periods of thirty minutes each. WFTDA rules state that each team can call a time-out once per period, which gives them three per game. Do GGRD teams likewise only get one per period? If so, that gives them only two per game. Is the other time-out recoverd in some way? One way this might matter is if a team wishes to use time-outs strategically (e.g. try to break momentum the other team has).


GGRD only allows one team time out per thirty-minute period. Yes, in a sense, each team is robbed of 50% of their potential time-out time. Similarly, each skater has 50% more time to commit three major fouls which might disqualify her from the period.

I believe it was Judge Mills Lane -- or was it Supreme Court Justice Learned Hand? -- who put it thusly:"Big whoop."



The Professor wrote:2. Section 3.5 of WFTDA rules discussing passing the star to allow the pivot to become the jammer. In 3.5.6 it states that the initial jammer plays the role of the pivot once the star has been passed. Does "play the role" mean the star could, in theory, be passed back to her? It may be implausible, but implausible isn't impossible. So, allowed or not?


Yup, WFTDA rules v1.0 are ambiguous on this point.

GGRD practice is that the star may only be handed off once per jam (per team). Our interpretation is that the phrase "playing the role" means that her teammates might (or might not) look to her for pack pacing guidance, now that their prior leader has left the pack. And, if the former jammer fouled out while now playing the 'pivot' position, the pivot position would be penalized (potentially into the next jam).

The Professor wrote:3. Section 5.1 of WFTDA rules discusses legal blocking. 5.1.6 states that skaters can't user their head in blocking. 5.1.7 states the very same thing, but 5.1.7.1 states "opposing players may not push through blockers from behind". Seems there is a typo, but I can't figure out from 5.1.7.1 what 5.1.7 should be. So, what is 5.1.7.


Nationally, this section of the rules is generally acknowledged to be weirdly written, aside from the obvious typo.

Don't expect the phrase "push through" to survive WFTDA rules v2.0. My understanding is that the intent was to prevent jammers from cramming their way between blockers who are blocking side-by-side. However, the other rules governing legal and illegal blocking would seem to already have that situation covered.

When I read "push through," I'm imagining a very bizzare scenario where the jammer has mutant "walk through walls" powers (a la 'Shadowcat') and actually skates right through another human being. Which, granted, would be very cool, but in this case GGRD has elected to let the laws of particle physics govern that situation.

The Professor wrote:4. WFTDA rules section 6.5.1 discusses intermission penalty showdowns. I found this section a little strange. Any insight into the origins of this rule?


Many leagues, including GGRD, used to stage a 'penalty showdown' between periods where the fouley-est skaters on each team would perform some competitive stunt, like arm wrestling or an improvised relay race, and the winning skater would earn a point for her team.

GGRD stopped doing this in 2006, for a variety of reasons including particality, marketing messaging, and competitive fairness. It seems that many other leagues have also made the same decision, and many other leagues still do this. While WFTDA Rules v2.0 are still being hammered out, expect to see this entire section go bye-bye and left entirely to local tradition.

I don't want to speak out of line about what to expect in WFTDA v2.0 rules; any implications above about what to expect are based on informal + anecdotal communications with 'unidentified government sources'.

- Hambone
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Re: Four Incredibly Pedantic Questions for Hambone (or other

Postby The Professor » 06.12.06 5:17PM

Oh, I'm sure there are some other fans of rules talk out there. They, however, prefer to keep their secret shame quiet.


Shame, sir? There is no shame; you should wear your rule-geekiness with pride (which you do quite well with those white-and-black striped shirts).


I believe it was Judge Mills Lane -- or was it Supreme Court Justice Learned Hand? -- who put it thusly:"Big whoop."


Ah, the Pedant v. Nitpicker decision. The most easily understood legal decision ever.

When I read "push through," I'm imagining a very bizzare scenario where the jammer has mutant "walk through walls" powers (a la 'Shadowcat') and actually skates right through another human being. Which, granted, would be very cool, but in this case GGRD has elected to let the laws of particle physics govern that situation.


Here's your real shame: Shadowcat? She'll always be Sprite to me.

Thanks for the answers. I'm indebted to you. I'd offer to buy you another drink, but, if you're a top shelf kind of guy, that could get expensive.
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Postby hambone » 06.12.06 5:33PM

For the record, I only mentioned "Shadowcat" because I saw X-Men 3 yesterday... i had to look up the character's name, I swear.

glug glug, good thing I'm a pretty low-class drinker...
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Re: Four Incredibly Pedantic Questions for Hambone (or other

Postby Anarchist » 06.12.06 7:47PM

hambone wrote:Many leagues, including GGRD, used to stage a 'penalty showdown' between periods where the fouley-est skaters on each team would perform some competitive stunt, like arm wrestling or an improvised relay race, and the winning skater would earn a point for her team.

GGRD stopped doing this in 2006, for a variety of reasons including particality, marketing messaging, and competitive fairness. It seems that many other leagues have also made the same decision, and many other leagues still do this. While WFTDA Rules v2.0 are still being hammered out, expect to see this entire section go bye-bye and left entirely to local tradition.


We have the penalty showdown in the Rat City Rollergirl league. It doesn't have a negative impact upon for us as far as practicality, marketing and competative fairness. It's completed in a very timely matter and it is a source of comic relief for the fans (and in some cases for the players.)

Don't wanna tell ya how to run your league, but I'm just sayin.

And good luck on finding a permanent home.
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Re: Four Incredibly Pedantic Questions for Hambone (or other

Postby hambone » 06.12.06 11:42PM

Anarchist wrote:We have the penalty showdown in the Rat City Rollergirl league. It doesn't have a negative impact upon for us as far as practicality, marketing and competative fairness.


Cool. I don't recall our penalty showdown going away thanks to any particular democratic process or general poll, just a gut feel by the pooh-bahs in charge. And it wound up not being terribly controversial.

However, if we were to eliminate our traditional post-bout tapioca-wrestling, we'd have a serious mutiny on our hands.
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Postby Bobby Narco » 06.14.06 6:23PM

Your showdowns were better than:

Geriatric roller disco

Aerial gymnastics on rings

Momen-sheist / Imagine-Nuissance


But not as good as:

Miss Saturn
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Postby margaretthrasher » 06.14.06 7:07PM

Ooooooh. Watch it, Narco. You're talking about Lezly the skate guru who taught a whole bunch of us to skate, and we've got that man's back.

besides, penalty showdowns certainly never took the place of half-time entertainment, we just did them in addition to the bands that played at halftime.

You know I love you, right, Narco? Even if you are hopelessly misguided. :)

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Postby Joey XXX » 06.14.06 10:09PM

margaretthrasher wrote:Ooooooh. Watch it, Narco. You're talking about Lezly the skate guru who taught a whole bunch of us to skate, and we've got that man's back.


Yeah, and I can't believe you'd badmouth a girl who did trapeze in rollerskates to "Brand New Key."
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Postby Bobby Narco » 06.15.06 11:12PM

Minding my Ps and Qs. Treading lightly. All that.

But I'd rather watch y'all simulate a barrel race on skates, then drop down on all fours, grab a rubber rat in your mouth, and spit it into a bucket at the finish line.

Maybe it's just me.
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Postby Ana Bollocks » 06.15.06 11:20PM

I did love the rat race, that was definitely my favorite.

But on the whole, I'm happy without the showdowns. They were worth a point, and I'd hate to be skating in a bout that was so close it was decided by someone's rat-spitting prowess.
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